Matilda Lutz In Red Sonja
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'Red Sonja's MJ Bassett talks injecting compassion in red-headed warrior
If you've been breathlessly awaiting the triumphant return of Red Sonja to the big screen, you better drop what you're doing and check your local theater listings pronto, because today might be your only chance. As stated in the trailer for director MJ Bassett's Red Sonja, an all-new live-action fantasy starring Matilda Lutz and Robert Sheehan, the film is in theaters for a very limited "one night only engagement on August 13.Sign up for the Out Newsletter to keep up with what's new in LGBTQ+ culture and entertainment delivered three times a week straight (well) to your inbox!Based on the character created by writer Roy Thomas and artist Barry Windsor-Smith in 1973, Red Sonja (inspired by the pistol-toting swashbuckler Red Sonya of Rogatino created by Robert E. Howard) was a scantily clad Hyborian warrior who often teamed up with Conan the Barbarian in Marvel Comics.In 1985, the red-headed sword master was famously adapted for the big screen in the critically panned Red Sonja starring Brigitte Nielsen and Arnold Schwarzenegger. Even though it eventually developed a cult following, the sword-and-sorcery flop failed to spawn a sequel, and it would be decades before rumblings of another Red Sonja project would surface. For years, Sonja lived on in the comics, including Dynamite Comics' critically applauded run by award-winning writer Gail Simone in 2013. As for another live-action outing, the project would remain in development hell for years, jumping from the hands of directors like Robert Rodriguez (From Dusk Till Dawn), Simon West (Con-Air), and Bryan Singer (X-Men).None of the projects ever came to fruition, but Rodriguez's brief fling with the project famously produced a poster depicting Rose McGowan as the crimson-haired warrior. The seemingly cursed project even once landed in the hands of queer activist and Emmy-winning Transparent creator Joey Soloway with Tomb Raider: The Legend of Lara Croft scribe Tasha Huo attached as the writer. But when Soloway bowed out, Bassett, one of few openly transgender directors working in Hollywood, pounced on the opportunity and scored her ultimate passion project. While Bassett is not a household name, she's become a low- to mid-budget maven of sorts, and you've more than likely have come across her work. Some notable credits on her resume include 2009's dark fantasy Solomon Kane (another pulp-era character created by Howard), 2020 action flick Rogue starring Megan Fox, and episodes of Taken, Power, and Reacher.Bassett was also once entrusted by the great Sam Raimi (The Evil Dead) to let loose and go bonkers with bucket loads of blood in four episodes of Ash Vs. Evil Dead. She went on to direct an episode of Netflix's FUBAR, which paved the way for her to direct one of her childhood heroes, Schwarzenegger. Just ahead of Red Sonja's one-day-only theatrical release (fret not, it'll also be available on digital platforms August 29), Bassett sat down with Out for a candid conversation about her search for the perfect actress to play the iconic sword wielder and the challenges she faced bringing her vision to life on a shoestring budget. She also spills the beans on a scrapped cameo featuring Nielsen, and a possible Schwarzenegger-sanctioned King Conan project.Out: Before you landed this project how familiar were you with the history of Red Sonja going back to the original stories and comics?MJ Bassett: As I am obviously a Robert E. Howard fan, I knew "The Shadow of the Vulture"short story and read it. And Sonya of Rogatino, she only has like 40 lines of dialogue in the whole thing. But she's a really beautifully drawn character. But that's not [the character] I grew up with. I grew up with the 1985 movie version with Brigitte Nielsen, and I grew up with the 1973 Roy Thomas comic book adaptation for Marvel. So that was what I really knew about her. I'm not a complete comic book fan, but I knew about Sonja, I knew about Conan.You are no stranger to adapting the work of Robert E. Howardyou made a Solomon Kane movie. Can you talk about what you drew you towards Red Sonja and how the project landed in your lap?I was a child of the VHS boomand that run of '80s fantasy pictures mattered a lot to me. But it's a genre which pretty much had died out Ladyhawke, Beastmaster those slightly campy fantasy pictures. Even though I'm a trans woman, I'm not campy, I don't like campy stuff in my work anyway. I enjoy campy stuff, but I can't make things like that.So, chasing that thread, because of Robert Howard, the way he writes it was always serious and dark and intense and that was good for me. When I was asked to adapt Solomon Kane, it was like, oh, I completely get this character. I understand his darkness. And it was certainly pre-transition for me as well, so I was pretty intense and dark myself.And then, when I finished Solomon Kane, and it was well-regarded but only moderately successful, people said, "We assume you want to do Conan next." No, I want to do Sonja. "Why the hell do you want to do Red Sonja?" And 10 years later, I come out and everybody goes, "Ah, that's why you want to do Sonja."But, as an iconic female character, there's nobody else like her in fantasy. You've got Red Sonja and maybe Lucy Lawless as Xena, Warrior Princess. But you wouldn't have Xena without Sonja, so she's the protean female fantasy character. But what always slightly annoyed me was the fact essentially, she was a female character entirely filtered through male gaze. She existed just to be a big-breasted woman with a sword fighting alongside Conan.She was essentially a male character, but just drawn to look like a woman. And that always slightly grated me. And then when Gail Simone came along, her run took Sonja and gave her something else. And I really respect that. So I chased this thing for like a decade. I went in for meetings occasionally with the studio who owned it, and they were always in development with it, and Robert Rodriguez was going to do it.And Rose McGowan attached to star as Sonja.Yeah, that poster still exists. It was actually hanging on the wall of the studio when I went in to make Sonja every day. They didn't even take the damn poster down.The project also ended up in Bryan Singer's hands at one point, too.Well, the less we talk about that, the better. But yes. Bryan was going to do a very big-budget version, I heard. And then Joey Soloway was going to do it, which I, obviously coming from that queer space, was like, "Ah, Joey's got it. Okay, I'm not going to get it." And that didn't work out. And I pursued the company and I said to them, "Listen, there's nobody else who's qualified to make this picture like me.Not in the budget space that you want to work at." I make pretty low-budget pictures, but I also make them look really big. And that's the key to what I do, and I wanted to make my Sonja. People may not like what I've done, but this is my Red Sonja. This is a woman who is powerful and can be violent, but at the heart of it all, has compassion. When it came to finding your Sonja, can you talk about the key ingredients or qualities you were looking for and the moment you realized Matilda Lutz was the one.We knew the star of Red Sonja was the character rather than the actress, so there was no real pressure to find a superstar. But I ran the gamut from fighters and sports models who had what you would traditionally consider the physical element. But I never really cared about that because that's a view of Sonja as a superficially sexual entity. Matilda's name came up really early on because she'd been in this amazing movie called Revenge, where she sort of embodies all these things.Now, I'm not at all interested in a woman's power being derived from sexual violence being visited against her. I think it's an awful device. And obviously that's in Sonja's history as well. And I immediately want to dismiss that. But Revenge is a very special movie in lots of ways. And Matilda is just extraordinary in it. She has this Bambi-like quality: she's beautiful and innocent and wide-eyed. And then she turns it and you go, "Oh, she's going to kill you."But what she looks like is inconsequential to the power that she has sort of coursing through her veins. And I make very physical movies. I like to be in a burning forest or in a river or up a mountain or whatever the hell I'm doing. I want it to be physical and real, and that was the conversation we had.I knew that she could do the character stuff, but was she prepared to go into the physical space with me and make a movie which I felt was real? She was completely down for it. Whether it's emoting opposite Draygan (Sheehan) or she's having a fight in a burning forest with rain pouring down in this skimpy armor that she has to wear for iconic reasons, she has the acting skill set and the physical drive. That's Sonja, as far as I'm concerned.Did it ever cross your mind to get Brigitte Nielsen for a cameo?Not only did I toy with it, it exists. It didn't make the movie, unfortunately. I love Brigitte. She's such a great human being. I didn't know her before this, but obviously I watched the Red Sonja movie, but that was an incredibly interesting, very '80s take on Sonja. Short, supermodel catwalk hair and it's like, What the hell, man, right?We all have visions of what things should be and I'm sure that people who watch my Red Sonja will go, "Well, that's not how Sonja's supposed to be, she's supposed to look like this." And you go, "You know what? You are right. She is supposed to look like that for you."You were given a shoestring budget to bring your vision to life. As a director who has worked with tight amounts of money before, what are the key things you try to prioritize to maximize your limited budget?When I jumped on board this, the studio said it's not gonna be a big budget movie like Bryan Singer's. This is gonna be the MJ Bassett budget, which is a different beast. And that's okay, because once I know my parameters, I can paint within the frame that I'm given. And I don't push against that. So what you're looking for is to maximize the time you have to do things. So where are you going to shoot it?I knew I was going to shoot it in Bulgaria. That was a non-negotiable. And this movie had been in development for 17 years at the studio. Nobody believed we'd make it. And the promise I made to Millennium was that I'll get it across the line. So that's why Matilda mattered. That's why Rob Sheehan mattered, and that's where I focused my energies. I wrote so many more monster fights for this film. They all had to go.There must have been some heartbreaking sacrifices that you just didn't get to shoot.Well, it was more about not being able to finish things in post. I was going to die on the hill of the Cyclops. I wanted to have a Cyclops in a movie ever since I watched Ray Harryhausen movies as a kid. I made it the centerpiece and that's it. It's not as long or as complex as I'd intended, but every step of the way it becomes: what's the best thing for the story? What can look good? So, there was a big monster at the beginning that had to go once the visual effects budget started to become real. Now, as a filmmaker, you can curl into a corner and cry or you go, "Ok, what's the story I'm going to tell?" And it's really always about that.So long as that story remained true, as long as the trajectory of my arrow was that final scene at the end with Sonya and Draygan. [The film] ends in a way where there's compassion and humanity and understanding. And that's what I needed from this film because that's what I believe is important in the world.For the eagle-eyed fans out there, did you sprinkle in any Easter eggs throughout the film? Perhaps little nods to the original stories or comics? The character of Annisia, she's drawn from the comic. So is the character of Draygan. The big ape-looking dude, General Karlak, the ape people of Sorjoon. I had to ask the rights holders if I was allowed access to these characters because some characters exist in Conan's world.Even in Red Sonja back in the day with Arnold, he doesn't play Conan. I actually asked Arnold if he'd be in this one. I just thought what an amazing cameo it would be. Weirdly enough, I didn't know him at the time. And then I subsequently directed him in a TV show called FUBAR. And I got along incredibly well with him. He's the nicest man. And he was really keen to see Sonja.So, he actually saw it two days ago and loves it, which is amazing. He FaceTimed me to say, "I've just watched your movie. I think it's amazing." And that's incredibly heartwarming coming from one of the icons from your childhood.Did he by chance bring up King Conan? There's been talks of him reprising that role for quite some time.We talked about me making it and him being in it and the John Milius script that he adores. But the Conan rights are complicated, and I know they have other plans for it. Because I literally called them after I said, "I'm here with Arnold. Let's just do it. Let's make King Conan. I know how to make this movie. I'm now one of the few people in the world who's made this many sorcery movies. And I know what [Arnold] can do. I know what he likes to do. I know what he's capable of. And I also think there's a sort of towering final performance in there to get.The last shot in Red Sonja leaves it open for a sequel. So, are you going to play in this Sonja sandbox a little more?The question is going to be: Does it get enough of an audience to merit the spend? It's a financial decision, not a creative decision. Matilda wants to come back. I want to get back into that world because one of the things I've done is teed her up to become a little bit more like the Sonja that exists in the comic space.I know two or three storylines that I'd like to, not necessarily lift from the comics, but that I feel are appropriate for Sonja. And I've told one story about who she is and now we know what her values are. Now I can explore that more and a bit more magic, a bit more monsters. I'd go back all day long just to stand alongside Matilda.
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