Photo D-Kleine / Alicia Brand / Design by Sam DonndelingerSubscribe nowWe are less than three weeks out from the election, and the holiday season is in full swing. American families across the country are divided, many in conflicts that have led to complete silence. 32% of U.S. adults said the political climate has caused familial strain.For many LGBTQ people, the stakes of the election results were high. President-elect Donald Trump led his campaign with anti-trans attack ads and transphobia. His key slogan, Kamala is for They/Them, President Trump is For You, was a jab at the nonbinary community. And Project 2025, which was written with the help of 140 former members of the Trump administration, suggests America returns to a traditional definition of the family. After Election Day, LGBTQ youth calls to one mental health crisis line spiked by 700 percent.Many folks sounded off on social media with their concerns:Sage Rosiello, a 23-year-old nonbinary person, and their mom, Vickey Hoffman, are best friends who spoke every day before the election. But after Sage learned that Vickey voted for Trump, they felt betrayed. Since then, the pair has gone completely silent, aside from arguments about whether the Trump administration will roll back Sage and their fiances rights as well as the rights of the LGBTQ community at large.With Sage and Vickeys permission, Uncloseted Media reached out to Elise Robinson, a psychotherapist and Licensed Clinical Social Worker in New Jersey, who agreed to mediate a conversation.Robinsonwho regularly works with queer peoplesays Sage and Vickeys situation is not unique. We find that election years tend to really bring [family conflict] to the forefront, she says, adding that queer people today have less patience for ignorance is bliss when it comes to LGBTQ issues. Subscribe for LGBTQ-focused journalism.The following is a condensed transcript of the conversation held between Elise, Vickey and Sage. Please note that this was not an official therapy session but a moderated conversation to support Vickey and Sages relationship ahead of the holiday season.Zoom call with Elise, Vickey, and SageElise Robinson: I want to start by asking you guys the reason for coming together today. What is your hope?Sage Rosiello: I guess my hope is that I get the parental support and not just the feeling of being wrong and feeling of judgment.Vickey Hoffman: I was asked to be here because apparently I'm not supportive of something. Yeah, that's it.Sage: I've expressed some concerns about the election, and I know that it is a big topic. I mean, realistically, we cant really agree to disagree on human rights, but I'm coming from this as my rights. I have said this before, but there is a federal law that prevents discrimination against LGBTQ people.1 And that has been talked about going away. It would impact me. It's been giving me a lot of mental health problems. Its been giving the community and people who I care about many problems and we're trying to support each other. My fiance and I are trying to support each other. So we think about these things and how it would impact us and what could potentially happen if we didn't have rights in every state.Elise: Vickey, what are you hearing from Sage right now?Vickey: I have never disregarded any of her2 concerns. Sage brought this concern up to me when there wasnt anything I could do about it. She failed to tell me these things. We used to speak every single day, and this concern was never a subject. And then after the fact, when she found out how I voted, she decided that she was going to be mad at me when there was no discussion ever attempted to be had. If this were such an existential thing for her, why are we having this conversation when it's too late?It's not that I don't support her relationship or her rights because I do 100% and I've expressed this to her, that if anything were to ever come up that threatened her rights, I would be the first person marching against it. In my eyes, she loses any right to be upset with me about what I did in the election booth when she didn't have these conversations that she should have had with me. That's it.Elise: I would love for you guys to speak to one another on how you define support, because I hear you both using that word.Vickey:My idea of support is being willing to have her back in case any negativity was to come her way.Sage: My idea of support isn't future, potential, maybe support. It's right now support and no judgmental comments or you're wrong. More of Hey, I hear you.Vickey: You didn't say this until after. When there's nothing that can be done. Period. I get annoyed with your anger at me when there's nothing further that can be done. But now you think that I'm not supporting you.Sage: Okay. Can I finish my thought? Because you interjected, I was not done.Vickey: Finish.Sage: To say that I have never brought up concerns about LGBTQ rights is not true. I always talk about it, 24/7. It's a topic that comes up because I am a part of said community and every once in a while I like to check on if I have rights still just in case. Its a topic that's been brought up since I came out with most of the family.Vickey: Well, I did go look, and the alleged rights that you could possibly lose have to do with Project 2025,3 which the president has renounced on multiple occasions. The frantic worry about this is just fear-mongering into the LGBTQ community and getting everyone wound up about something that's never going to happen.Elise: Sage, if you could share a little bit more about the feelings coming up for you.Sage: Well, I am feeling fearful because of everything I've read.Elise: And when it comes to the feelings with your mom?Sage: It feels attacking, you know. Words like fear-mongering.Elise: Okay. I'm going to ask you to speak directly to your mom and be a little more specific.Sage: I don't feel supported when I see long novels being sent to me saying how I'm wrong. I want more, like, softer words than, You're wrong. Here's why. I don't really want to be fact-checked by my mom.Elise: So just to reiterate that for your mom here. It sounds like being listened to is what you're describing.Sage: Yeah. Like, listened to, and understood.Elise: Vickey, please go ahead.Vickey: So basically, the gist I'm getting is that I must concede that only her viewpoint is valid because it makes her feel a certain type of way. Even though it may be mistaken, I have to disregard any information counter to what the other party is feeling because of Sages feelings. And I don't operate that way. There's fear and anxiety being had and I have told her that I do understand. However, the fear may be overblown due to a lot of activism surrounding this election that has aimed to cause fear. And it has been successful because you are seeing the work of a successful fear campaign on my daughter. There is no bill in Congress being pushed for this. So I have trouble supporting something that is not currently happening. All I can do is offer my support in case it does happen. Yes. I believe she's fearful. Yes, I believe she has anxiety. But unless she takes steps to realize that there's no boogeyman coming for her, then I don't know what to do.Elise: Such a big difference I'm hearing about what's actually happening versus what I'm hearing when Sage talks about their feelings. And those are happening in real time. And that's the support Im hearing Sage ask for. Is that accurate?Sage: Yeah, it's pretty accurate.Vickey: I understand that you have this fear. And as a mother, I am trying to help you quell that fear. And I'm trying to give you reassurance to reduce your fear. These things are not even at the start of any process. I love you. You are my heart. (Tears). And I don't want you to feel this way. But that's why I'm telling you reasons why you shouldn't be fearful.Elise: So, Vickey, some of your protectiveness is that you don't want Sage to experience fear because you know how hard that is. Is that some of what you're saying right now?Vickey: Yes. And I realize she is experiencing fear. And I might come off a little off balance when I'm trying to express that to her. She doesn't need to be fearful. Maybe I'm not articulating it correctly or it's just not coming off as smoothly as I would like. What I'm trying to do is give her reasons to reduce the level of fear. Not disregard it. All I can offer you are words of support. That's all I can do. And I'm willing to do it. And aside from running over to you and just grabbing a hold of you and trying to protect you, which I can't do. This is all I've got.Sage: (Tears). Okay. Well. See, you're crying, now I'm crying.Vickey: It's hereditary.Sage: I know that no one is doing anything right now, but as a person in the community, I'm always a little bit fearful of the future. I'm always fearful of my rights. Somebody who is not in the community doesn't really have to be worried about that all the time, but I know it will personally affect me. I'm always thinking about it. There are many people in the community who always think about it. So it's always in there.Elise: And so speaking just for yourself, Sage, when your mom says these things about being there in this way and understanding your fear right now, if you could focus just on yourself for this moment.Sage: I hear that. But I don't know. It's just hard to take in because of everything else that's been said.Elise: In other words, some of what you were hearing from your mom invalidates other things you're hearing from her and some of that invalidation being about who you are as a person?Sage: Yeah, it's kind of like, I support you, but I love you, but There really shouldn't be a but. Don't tell me why I'm wrong. Maybe just be there.Elise: Vickey, what do you hear from Sage, as they say that?Vickey: Well, what I hear is that she doesn't want me to say or do anything. Just sit there and listen to her. But if I respond in a supportive way, she complains that I'm not supportive enough.Sage: I don't want abrasive language. I don't want, Hey, you're wrong, when I already feel low because that puts me lower. Because it's not just this election that makes me feel fearful for my rights. I'm always like that. The whole community is always thinking about it.Elise: Does this new world kind of make it more of a reality?Sage: Yeah, it does.Elise: Vickey, I want to give you space to be able to respond.Vickey: All I can do as a mother is verbally say that I support you and that you can come to me at any time and talk to me about anything. But when you're talking over text, inflection is lost. You don't know how the person is speaking.Elise: How would you guys feel about maybe committing to phone calls or something other than text to continue on some of these conversations?Vickey: That's fine. I'm perfectly fine with that.Elise: Do you feel like that would have an impact?Sage: Yeah (tears). I'm sorryElise: Nothing to be sorry for. This is an emotional conversation. You're okay. What's something you would like to say to your mom right now?Sage: I don't know. I feel like I said a lot.Vickey and Sage try to mend their fractured relationship. Video edited by Em Oliver. Vickey: I'll say something. I want you to know that I love you. There is no force in this universe that could ever make me not love you. With that love comes my unwavering support. Because you are my child. And I think for future reference, when we have such important conversations, they need to be heard and not read because a lot of messaging gets lost in a text. So in the future, we need to spend more time talking because I don't like you being mad at me. Because I love you. I want you to know that I love you. And nothing on this planet could make me not love you.Sage: Yeah, I love you too.Subscribe for rigorous, LGBTQ focused journalism:After this conversation, Uncloseted Media checked in with Sage and Vickey. Sage has been feeling eh since the session and hasnt talked to their mom. They dont plan on seeing Vickey over the Thanksgiving holiday. [The session] helped me see exactly what kind of person she is by not listening to me.Vickey says she texted Sage after the session saying that she loves them (however, Sage told Uncloseted Media they didnt receive this text). If she wants to behave in a way that makes me the enemy, thats her decision. And Im just going to live my life, says Vickey, adding that Sage wouldnt be unwelcome for Thanksgiving. Elise Robinson says shes rooting for Sage and Vickey and adds that opening the door for communication is key to healing. We cant get anywhere if we are not willing to listen. That is the starting place, and it is so important. We can uncover so much when we go from there, and [opening the conversation] is one of the hardest parts.If objective, nonpartisan, rigorous, LGBTQ-focused journalism is important to you, please consider making a tax-deductible donation through our fiscal sponsor, Resource Impact, by clicking this button:Donate to Uncloseted Media1Sage is referencing Bostock v. Clayton County, Georgia, when the Supreme Court held that firing individuals because of their sexual orientation or transgender status violates Title VIIs prohibition on discrimination because of sex. 2While Sage has expressed to their mom that they are nonbinary and use they/them pronouns, Vickey referred to Sage with the pronouns she/her throughout the conversation. After the interview, Vickey told Uncloseted Media, Its habit. This is a recent development with her. And she hasnt expressed that it bothers her.3For a full explainer about how Project 2025 could affect LGBTQ rights, read our story about it here.